Proposed Sewer District #5 - Q&A Mailbox

The following are questions submitted by members of the community regarding the proposed Sewer District #5. The questions are followed by corresponding answers provided by the City. If you would like to submit a question please click on this link SD #5 Q&A Mailbox.

The Q&A Mailbox will be updated regularly as new questions are received. Please note, this Q&A Mailbox is an opportunity for the community to obtain facts about Sewer District #5. The City will not respond to inappropriate questions and/or commentary.

Additional information about the proposed Sewer District #5 is available on the City's website at Proposed Sewer District #5 Information, or by contacting the Public Works Department at (818) 790-8882.

Q1. What is the age of the oldest Low Pressure Sewer (LPS) system installed and is it still operating?

A. Countrywide there are over 40 cities and districts that have installed LPS systems ranging in size from 65 to over 23,000 units. The oldest LPS system is in Horseshoe Bay, TX. Over 3,000 units were installed in the early 1970’s and are still running.

Q2. Has La Cañada Flintridge contacted any other cities that have this system and asked how it is working?

A. Yes. In California, the following cities or districts:
• City of San Diego: there are 100 units installed around canyon area and easements in San Diego in 2000.
• Valley Center Municipal Water District – San Diego County – 80 units installed 1992 with planning to add another 530 units in the near future.
• Rancho Palos Verdes – LA County - 50 units installed in 2000
• Citrus Heights, San Diego County – 25 units installed in 2002
• North Davis Meadows, Yolo County - 100 units installed in 1995
In Illinois:
• Holidays Shores – 1,200 units installed in 1991

Q3. What is the life span of the system?

A. Main lines and laterals are made from a very durable non-corrodible and flexible material know as high density polyethylene pipe (HDPE) which has a life span of over 100 years. The grinder pumps typically last 10 to 15 years between major overhauls. A pump can be removed and a new one installed in a less than an hour.

Q4. How long will the PVC last compared to clay?

A. The material we plan to use is high density polyethylene pipe (HDPE). See previous question.

Q5. What happens if the 1” line gets clogged?

A. The pipe size from the house to the street is typically 1¼” diameter which is needed to ensure the velocity of the fluid inside the pipe is sufficiently high to ensure scouring so that clogging does not occur. Waste will be grinded very finely by the grinder pump making clogging a rare occurrence. If it does occur, there are several safely features built into the system to prevent damage and spills. These include:
• High water alarm connected to an audible alarm inside the house.
• Heat or pressure sensor to shut off the pump
• A remote monitoring system or auto dialer can be added to send an alarm signal to the service provider to take corrective action without the homeowner being aware there has been a problem

Q6. When a clog happens does it back up the homes behind the clogged area?

A. No. There are two check valves that prevent any backflow from the main line system to the grinder pump. One at the property boundary and one at the grinder unit.

Q7. How is it determined where the clog is?

A. The main piping system is constructed in segments with each segment connected through a system of valves which can isolate each segment and allow pressure cleaning with high pressure hoses. The blockage can be located by seeing which pumps are working downstream and which are not upstream and then isolating the segment for cleaning. Because of the way the valves are set up in the segment vaults, cleaning with high pressure water or air only takes a short time and does not affect the operation of the system. If the clog is in the lateral on private property it can be blown out using the same high pressure water or air methods.
Clogs rarely occur with LPS systems. If clogging does happen, it more likely in commercial areas due to non working grease traps. Clogging is much more common in gravity systems caused by the intrusion of tree and plant roots into joints. Since there are no joints with an LPS system this does not occur. If a clog occurs with a gravity system there are no check valves to prevent sewage backing up into the house.

Q8. The estimated fee for maintenance is $514.00 yearly. Don’t we pay a fee based on the amount of water we use which is called a sewer charge?

A. This is a typical way of paying for sewage operation and maintenance costs in many areas where the water and sewer provider is the same entity. In the case of District 5, most properties are served by the Valley Water Company, a private water company. As the LPS system will be provided by the City, a separate billing and accounting is needed.

Q9. Will we be getting a sewer charge?

A. Yes. It will be shown on your property tax assessment bill.

Q10. Is the $100.00 per year for the Los Angeles County Sanitation Districts sewer fee lumped into our $514.00 per year maintenance fee?

A. Yes.

Q11. According to one of the manufacturers that was present at the workshop on 10-22-07, the cost of a pump is approximately $240.00 plus about $100.00 in labor to replace. 1,800 homes x $340.00 = $612,000.00. The motors last approximately 10 years according to the manufacturers. S514.00 x 1,800 = $952,200.00 x 10 years = $9,252,000.00 - $612,000.00 = $8,327,000. Where does this over $8 million surplus go?

A. Here is the breakdown of the property owners annual fee for the operation and maintenance of the LPS System both on-site and off-site:
• Grinder Replacement/Repair *: $150
• Grinder Routine Maintenance: $120
• Systemwide Routine 0&M**: $100
• Systemwide Replacement/Repair ***: $ 44
• LA County Sanitation Districts Fee: $100
Total O&M Cost per Property: $514
* Sinking Fund for replacement of pump core and controls every 10 years
** Chemicals, carbon filters, pipe repair and cleaning
***Scrubber fans, chemical feed pumps, valves etc
Costs are included in the above for a 24/7 call center for property owners to call in the event of a pump malfunction for record keeping and for City overhead to monitor the contract service provider.

Q12. If the reserve that was collected over ten years is not needed then will the residences in area 5 get a portion of their money returned?

A. The maintenance reserve fund will be reviewed periodically and the actual rate adjusted based on actual experience.

Q13. Will the $514.00 reserve be earmarked for only area 5 sewers?

A. Yes.

Q14. Will there be an accounting of the maintenance fee account made available to the public?

A. Yes.

Q15. How big is the tank?

A. The capacity of a typical 6’ high 30” diameter tank is 220 gallons and a 36” diameter 6’ tank’s capacity is 315 gallons.

Q16. What is the tank made of?

A. Polyethylene or fiberglass.

Q17. Where is the tank installed?

A. Typically between the house and the existing septic tank, but the final location is very flexible and may be determined by the homeowner.

Q18. If a tank is broken then how is it replaced and who pays for it?

A. District 5 will pay the cost associated with the tank and pump replacement.

Q19. What is included in maintenance?

A. Pump, tank, electrical components, and lateral in addition to the main line. See previous questions.

Q20. How often is maintenance performed?

A. Typically, there is no need for preventative maintenance on the pumping equipment as is needed with cars. Alarm activations will indicate that the unit is not pumping properly and that servicing is required to fix or replace the unit.

Q21. If maintenance is periodic then why do we pay an additional $1 million per year?

A. See questions/answers above regarding maintenance costs.

Q22. If we add-on or build a larger home on our property, will we need a larger tank? If so who pays?

A. The existing pump and tank will most likely be adequate but the pump will be required to operate a little longer each day. The typical total operating time each day is less than 30 minutes. An additional 5 to 10 minutes may be needed because of the home modification. This may result in more wear and tear on the unit which may reduce its operational lifespan. In any case, the sinking fund for replacement and repairs will cover this cost.

If upsizing of the tank is required, District 5 will cover the cost associated with retrofitting, adding, or replacing the current tank to provide adequate storage capacity. See above

Q23. Who pays to run the electrical from the panel to the unit? The City’s information states no out of pocket costs to the owner?

A. District 5 pays. All onsite work will be included. However, the homeowner pays for the cost of the electricity to operate the grinder pump. This cost is estimated to be approximately $30 per year.

Q24. Where did you get the figures for the cost? Electrical to run the system? Maintenance and how long it lasts?

A. The cost to run a 1 HP (0.75Kiowatts) motor for 30 minutes per day is based on the cost of a kilowatt-hour of power purchased from SCE. Currently the cost of a kilowatt-hour is about 15 cents or 11.25 cents for a horsepower-hour. Hence if the pump runs for 30 minutes per day the cost is 5.63 cents per day, or $20.50 per year if it operates every day.

For the costs of maintenance please refer to Chapter 8, Appendix H of the Archer engineering analysis on the City’s web-site at www.lcf.ca.gov.

Q25. Why is [assessment cost] based on lot size?

A. The cost apportionment is actually based on the square root of the lot size which is the hypothetical frontage length is the property was square. The two components of the costs are the main lines in the street and the grinder pump and lateral on private property. The mainline in the street’s cost is related to the frontage length of the property. The length of lateral is also roughly related to the distance of the house from the street which again is typically related to lot size.

Q26. Why should a person with a 32,000 sq. ft. lot and a 3,300 sq. ft. house have to pay more then a person who has an 18,000 sq. ft. lot with a 7,000 sq. ft. house?

A. It is based on lot size not the house square footage. More information is available in Q5 above. The 32,000 sq. ft. lot has a potential to construct larger house in the future that a smaller lot. Construction costs are greater for the larger lots because of the longer runs of the piping and landscape restoration. However, it should be noted that the operation and maintenance costs are the same for all sized lots and all sized houses.

Q27. The price should be the same for all homes or it should be based on the size of the house. The more sq. ft. of a house the more people that can live in the home creating more sewage then someone who lives in a smaller home.

A. See answers to Q25 and 26 above.

Q28. Basing the charge on potential home size is ridiculous. It should be based on what is actually in place (facts).

A. See answers to Q25 and 26 above.

Q29. The City states that there is more distance to run the PVC sewage line if a lot is larger. We live on a 32,000 sq. ft. lot and our run to the street is 45 feet which is the same distance as the smaller lots in our area. This should be done on a home by home basis.

A. The assessment is based on the majority lot description and not specific lot of house.

Q30. If someone decides to tear down a home on a large lot to build a larger home then in the permit fees a sewer fee charge should be implemented.

A. See answers to Q25 and 26 above.

Q31. If the City is going to charge us more money because we have a larger lot then we should have more of a say in yes or no.

A. The votes are weighted based on lot size.

Q32. In areas 1-3 did the home owners get charged more if they were on a larger lot?

A. In Districts 1-3, properties were assessed based on equivalent dwelling units (EDU). In a gravity sewer, it is a typical way of apportioning the cost of construction based on the type of use (i.e., single family home, multi-family housing, commercial, industrial, etc.).

Q33. What is the bond rate in area 1, 2 and 3?

A. District 1 – 1.8%
District 2 – 2.4%
District 3 – 2.3%

Q34. Why is area 5 at 5.5%?

A. It is a conservation rate projected for 2009. and was used to ensure the projected assessments to homeowners are the highest probable. The City does not want to position itself by providing a low bond rate projection at this time and then have to advise property owners when the real assessment vote comes along that oops sorry your assessment is much higher than we projected earlier. It is possible that the City could again receive low rate State Revolving Fund money but at this time it appears unlikely.

Q35. Why was area (1 - 8,000.00) (2 - 12,000.00) (3 - 14,000.00) for sewers to the curb and we are 46,000.00 plus a maintenance fee?

A. The LPS system includes the onsite lateral while the residents in the other District had to pay out of pocket to install themselves. This was in addition to the sewer assessment fee and the maintenance fee. Also, the topographic characteristic, rocky ground condition, hard bedrock, narrower street, and other factors including today’s cost versus 10 years ago played a major factors in estimating the construction cost in 2009.

Q36. What is the guarantee given by the manufacturer, contractor and engineer that the system will work? How long is the guarantee for?

A. The District will guarantee the operation and maintenance of the system after all other guarantees expire.

Q37. Does the company guarantee they can get all 1,800 homes a generator in a relatively fast period time?

A. Most power outages last less than one hour and rarely more than a few hours. The City is working with SCE to analyze the reliability of each of the feeder power lines serving the District and where needed reliability must be improved. With multiple feeder lines it is unlikely that all 1,800 homes will be without power at any one time.
A 30” diameter 6’ deep tank holds 220 gallons and a 36” diameter 6’ deep tank will hold 315 gallons. A typical daily use under normal conditions is in the range of 200-300 gallons per day. However, under power outage conditions the flow can be expected to be in the range of 0-100 gallons per day since there are not electrical appliances running (dishwasher, washing machines, etc.) and most likely no long showers in the dark. Hence during extended power outages there is 2-4 days storage available in the tanks.

We estimate that it will take only 15 minutes per house to pump down the tank with a portable generator. In two days approximately 200 homes can be pumped with a single generator working two 12 hour shifts. In the unlikely event that all 1,800 homes are out of power, 9 trucks with portable generators and 18 men are required. This is the worst case scenario and is manageable.

Pumping stations for gravity systems also rely on a standby generator to start and operate in the event of a power failure. However, the consequences of this generator not starting may result in sewage spillover. By contrast, an LPS system has 2-4 days of storage capacity, whereas the gravity systems pumping stations only have a few hours of storage.

Q38. Has the City applied for any government grants or assistance?

A. Yes. The City has received a low-interest State Revolving Fund loan to finance construction of sewers. This aids in holding down costs borne by residents to pay for construction.

Q39. Go back to areas 1-3 and impose a fee to help with the cost, just as the City did with areas 4-5.

A. Each District must pay for its own system. Previously Districts 4 and 5 were separate, but are now combined as one district (District 5).

Q40. Implement a special sales tax or a fee?

A. A sewer district may only be formed by the affected property owners. Therefore, a sewer assessment must be paid by the sewer district property owners, and not through taxes paid by the general public. Under assessment district law, costs borne by property owners may not exceed the proportionate benefit that is derived by the property. Thus, a special tax or fee would exceed the proportionate distribution incurred by each property and, thus, could be invalidated.

Q41. Implement a fee when pulling permits?

A. No additional permits will be required. See answer to Q40 above.

Q42. Did the City ever get a cost on sewers for all of the areas before construction started?

A. The City obtained estimated costs for the entire proposed District #5. If asking about Citywide construction costs, because residents previously voted-down Citywide sewers, sewer costs were based on individual districts as residents from those districts approached the City requesting sewers.

Q43. Is there financial aid for low income families?

A. Unfortunately, the City has been unable to locate any State or Federal grant funding opportunities to assist low income families but we are always looking.

Q44.When was #4 and #5 combined?

A. In 2005, Districts 4 and 5 were combined because both required the use of a major pump station to move effluent to the LA County Sanitation District for treatment. Since both districts would benefit from the improvement, it made sense to combine the districts so that the cost could be fairly apportioned to all properties that received the benefit.

Q45. Why were #4 and #5 combined?

A. See answer to Q44 above.

Q46. How much is the main infrastructure (trunk line) for area 5 estimated to be?

A. The City has capacity rights in the LA County Sanitation District’s trunk line and there is no extra charge to the homeowner except the $100 annual fee (included in the $514 Maintenance Fee) for conveyance and treatment.

Q47. Why can’t the flat landers in area 5 install a pump station and pump up to the infrastructure (trunk line) on Foothill Blvd? This would be a lot less expensive then running an entire new infrastructure out to Berkshire?

A. The trunk line on Foothill Blvd. does not have sufficient capacity to accommodate significant flow from south of Foothill Blvd.

Q48. [City Councilmember] Laura Olhasso stated that the residences of area 5 were made aware of Assembly Bill 885 2 years ago. I moved into area 5 over 2 years ago and have never received any such notification. Please forward the information that was sent out 2 years ago?

A. Information regarding AB 885 is available on the City’s website at www.lcf.ca.gov.

Q49. Was a topographical map done to see if Berkshire or any other areas could be used without a pumping station?

A. Yes. The recommendations for the pump station in the gravity system is necessary.

Q50. Were any engineers consulted or hired to see if in fact a sewer system could be installed without using a pumping situation in area 5?

A. Yes. A detailed study was conducted 3 years ago by Willdan Engineers and two pumping stations were required to lift the wastewater into the LA County Sanitation District’s large trunk sewer. At that time the cost for a gravity system was too high for Area 5 residents. The more recent Archer engineering analysis confirmed the results of the Willdan study.

Q51. How many homes are in areas: 1, 2, 3 and 5?

A. See table below.

*This number includes four schools, three water company parcels, eight commercial properties, and one church.

Q52. Have any coring tests been made to determine the actual consistency of the earth where sewer lines will be installed in area 5?

A. Yes. See Section 3.3 of the Archer engineering analysis currently on the City’s website at www.lcf.ca.gov.

Q53. I attended the Saturday community meeting. I don't understand how 9 portable generators could service approximately 1800 homes daily in the event of a power outage of more than 24 hours (earthquake anyone?). Even with no water or electricity, people could still flush their toilets for many days by pulling 1-3 gallons from their pool. Thank you.

A. Most power outages last less than one hour and rarely more than a few hours. The City is working with Southern California Esison to analyze the reliability of each of the feeder power lines serving the District and where needed reliability must be imporved. With multiple feeder lines it is unlikely that all 1,800 homes will be without power at any one time.

A 30" diameter 6' deep tank holds 220 gallons and a 36" diameter 6' depp tank hold 315 gallons. A typical daily use under normal conditions is ain the range of 200-300 gallons per day. However, under power outage conditions the flow can be expected to be in the range of 0-100 gallons per day since there are not electrical appliances runing (diswasher, washing machines, etc.) and most likely no longer showers in the dark. Hence during extended power outages there is 2-4 days storage available in the tanks.

We estimate that it will take only 15 minutes per house to pump down the tank with a portanble generator. In two days approximately 200 homes can be pumped with single genrator working two 12 hour shifts. In the unlikely event that all 1,800 homes are out of power, 9 trucks with portable generators and 18 men are required. This is the worst case scenario and is manageable.

Q54. Would the Low Pressure Sewer system fees appear on our property tax
bill and thus be deductible from federal income tax? Is the answer
different if we choose the one time cash payment versus the annual charges?

A. Yes, the assessment would appear on property tax statements. Regarding tax deductions, please consult your tax adviser on this matter.

Q55. Why aren't we using the E/One system which has been used extensively through out the US and in Europe (www.e/one.com) and seems to be considerably cheaper than the amount we are looking at here?

A. The City has not yet selected a particular manufacturer for the LPS system.

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La Cañada Flintridge, CA 91011
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